Wednesday, January 21, 2015

Creekside East + Greenwich Creekside East

As we reported in December, there was an exhibition of Kitewood's plans for one of the plots behind the Laban on 10th and 12th January. These plans can also be viewed on their website.

Whilst there is a live application in for Kent Wharf (see previous post and put your objections in now!), it may be a couple of months before Kitewood's application for Creekside East hits the Lewisham planners' desks.

The main thing to note from the above visual (apart from the appalling height of the tower) is that it excludes the towers that will sit besides these buildings as part of the redevelopment of the third plot of the Creekside Village development – Essential Living's Greenwich Creekside East. That application is sitting with Greenwich Council but has not been 'validated' so is not yet available to view in detail is now available to view on the Greenwich Planning Portal (Ref: 14/3795/F). But we did a quick montage using an image from their website:

(click to enlarge)

Back to the Kitewood plans: there are two buildings: a 25-storey tower by the waterfront and a 10-storey block behind it. At 25%, the percentage of 'affordable' housing here is higher than what we've come to expect (ie 13% at Kent Wharf, 14% at Convoys Wharf). However, it will be housed in the smaller block that is hemmed in by three buildings: Essential Living's 10-storey 'Family Block' on the waterside, the existing Creekside Village buildings to the north, and the 24-storey tower to its south. They will have a south westerly view from the upper floors though.

(click to enlarge)

Creekside East has 224 flats: 111 x 1-bed, 84 x 2-bed, and 29 x 3-bed and a mix of sizes across the site. Lewisham's strategy for Creekside as a 'creative hub' means Kitewood have included "a number of affordable commercial spaces that would be perfect for start-up businesses or artists studios". We pointed out that the commercial spaces in Creekside Village West had never been let or sold and were told that Kitewood's spaces would be much smaller without the ridiculous ceiling heights.

There will also be underground parking – the same as in the existing Creekside Village (West). How they can manage this when Bellway Homes cannot offer such a facility at Kent Wharf is anyone's guess. Considering the congestion on surrounding roads, some might suggest there should be no parking here either.

The interesting thing to note from the above plan is the waterfront space between Kitewood's plot and that of Essential Living's, right on the borough boundary with Greenwich (a thin black line demarcates the boundary). We were surprised to learn this patch of land belongs to Lewisham Council, and no one appears to know what they plan to do with it. Originally (see below) this was going to be a theatre.

Design-wise, Kitewood have stuck with the original architects of Creekside Village, Squire & Partners. In 2011 the Deptford Dame described Creekside Village as a "leering lump of steel and glass", and it looks like we're to get more of the same. The young architect from Squire & Partners working on Kitewood's development was possibly just starting big school when these designs were first mooted. Back in 2010 we reported on Squire's plan for the entire site:

 
(click to enlarge)

The 2010 website for "The Creekside Village" is still live, and the embedded promotional video – made with the 2012 Olympics in mind – is available to view in all its glory, along with some animations. Oh how we laughed at the time! This was how Creekside East was to develop:


A similar view is available on  Essential Living's website and we've added to it an outline of Kitewood's 10-storey "affordable housing" block:

(click to enlarge)

All of the developers clustering in Creekside seem highly reluctant to show their buildings in relation to neighbouring proposals. That's a shame, because they could do a much better job of it than us – below, a Creekside East elevation visual on which we have crudely drawn in some other buildings:

(click to enlarge)

Update 22 Jan: The Dame has just discovered that Essential Living's Greenwich Creekside East application is now up for viewing on the Greenwich Planning website. She has already commented on their December exhibition and may have more to say once she has digested the plans.

Update 23 Jan:  A quick look at Essential Living's planning application and their Transport Assessment in particular:

They are not revealing full details on their Construction Traffic plans. They will be using the same route as Kent Wharf – off Copperas Street and onto Creekside then up Blackheath Hill to the A2 (because HGVs are not allowed in Greenwich town centre). They say: "At this stage the level of traffic that is likely to be generated during the construction of the proposed development is not known." We know that Faircharm will generate 80-90 HGV trips along Creekside and Bellway Homes claim they will only add 25 to this traffic. It is likely Greenwich Creekside East will generate at least the same as Faircharm. And Creekside East the same. Plus construction workers' vehicles.

So, with FOUR developments being built at the same time, there is a potential 275 HGV trips per day along Creekside over two years. Add to that the Thames Tunnel work on Deptford Church Street (140 vehicles a day of which 64 will be HGVs) and the construction traffic from Convoys Wharf which will also be using this route.

Apart from the lack of detail on Construction logistics, Essential Living's Transport Assessment is almost an exact replica of Kent Wharf's with regard to Parking and Public Transport. Both developments will be car-free – although Essential Living has an underground carpark with 13 disabled spaces (not all of which will be used) – and neither's residents will be eligible for "on-street parking permits in existing CPZs". Everyone will be cycling to work, naturally. Both use the same TfL figures and have conducted similar parking surveys to show how much on-street unrestricted parking will be available, despite their intention to market to "would-be suitors" that there is minimal parking.

Essential Living say statistics show that 65% of Greenwich residents do not have a car and have applied that rate to their development so that "there could be up to 90 vehicles associated with the proposed development. Based on parking provision of 13 spaces this could result in 77 vehicles parking off-site...It is evident from the on-street parking survey that only some of these vehicles could park on the surrounding highway network during the day [in fact, their survey shows daytime parking maxed out at 103%!] whilst the significant majority could park overnight".

Just as both applicants provide drawings which omit the other proposed developments, they also present these figures in complete isolation: each claim there is ample overnight on-street parking for their own residents without admitting these spaces will be shared by FOUR new developments.

As for Public Transport, how much more overcrowding can we stand? We're reminded of the Clapham Junction resident commuting into town, who gets the train to Tooting every morning (the opposite direction) so that from there he can actually get standing room on the Clapham Junction train back into town.

More soon...



21 comments:

  1. The documents for Creekside Village East were put up yesterday so are available now. There are more than 120 *rolls eyes*.

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  2. Doh sorry I meant Greenwich Creekside East. They do it on purpose to confuse us *confused face*

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  3. Thanks, Dame! Yes they do seem to be making it up as they go along. I note Kitewood were previously calling their Creekside East development "Creekside Future East". Of course locals have alternative names for both of them – such as "more Shit" and "more Squires shit"...

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  4. Some locals may say that Sue, not all. I think you might be thinking of the narrow minded locals. Some of us are keen to see these buildings go up. Indeed I know some are even considering writing to say they think they could be taller.

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    1. Oh gawd, the Marketing Dept is on it already! I'm pretty sure there are a quite a number of existing Creekside Village West residents who aren't at all happy about these plans.

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    2. No, it's just my usual gripe about one person claiming to speak for everyone. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I enjoy reading it, but please don't assume you have all of the local support behind you. As for Creekside Village West, that is where I live (although have lived locally for years before) and when I moved I was fully aware of the plans for the surrounding area and that is partly why I decided to stay here. Pity other residents aren't so keen to embrace change.

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    3. I live next door tooFriday, January 23, 2015

      I'm genuinely interested in that claim - why would people write to ask for taller buildings?

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    4. I live next doorFriday, January 23, 2015

      I'm only saying I've heard the odd snippet from other residents. Not all residents - I'd imagine the majority are either happy or would like them smaller, but I guess some people like the idea of living in a mini-Canary Wharf on their doorstep.

      Personally I have no problem with the height as they stand so I won't be asking for taller buildings in the vicinity, but Sue you really do need to stop jumping on anyone who dares have a different opinion to you :-)

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    5. It's OUR doorstep. WE are NOT Canary Wharf. Get your own blog.

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    6. I live next doorFriday, January 23, 2015

      Sorry Sue - I didn't realise this blog was only only for people who shared your views. I won't post again.

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    7. It's not that your opinion is not welcomed, it's that you suggested people with opinions different to YOUR own are "narrow-minded" and "not keen to embrace change". There are a great many reasons why A LOT of local people oppose such development. Building heights are just one of them.

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    8. 'I live next door' – from what you've written below it seems you know an awful lot about what's going on in those retail units. The sort of info that might only be known by the Marketing Dept of a nearby proposed development...

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  5. They always make the trees big to make the buildings look smaller. Surely it takes 20 years or more for a tree to grow as high as 4 floors!

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  6. Thanks for the montage. I personally don't think it looks bad.

    My only concern is how they protect the area from the noise and pollution of the road. Other than that I'm happy something is happening there.

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    1. If you live facing Creek Road Anonymous you won't see much change in the traffic – the usual gridlock from 4pm every day. HGVs aren't allowed into Greenwich, so all construction traffic has to use Deptford Church St or Creekside to get to Blackheath Hill and the A2.

      If you live in Creekside, you will have a massive increase in noise and pollution from construction traffic for two years or more. FOUR new developments will be transporting construction materials to and from their sites on Copperas Street and Creekside.

      At least Bellway Homes and Faircharm have admitted how many HGVs they will be employing – together it's 95 lorries a day up and down Creekside.

      With Essential Living and Creekside East added into the mix it is likely to be well over double that. But all Essential Living say in their application is: "At this stage the level of traffic that is likely to be generated during the construction of the proposed development is not known. However the construction traffic impacts will be temporary..."

      Read our previous post on Kent Wharf (Bellway Homes) to get an idea of the impact of various aspects of building here.

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  7. Where's the bridge that's meant to cross from behind the Laban to Norman road?? Is that the responsibility of the developers or someone else? Local council maybe? (Doubt it!)

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  8. What is going on with the retail units at creekside West? They all have 'sold' signs in them, so who's moving in? How comes the corner unit which was going to be a deli ended up being a chair shop? What happened to the Greenwich playhouse relocating after they'd been booted out of their home near the station?

    I spoke to a resident at the bus stop about18 months ago and he'd said that the resident committee had rejected a proposal to turn some of the units to residential...seems they're all keen for them to be filled with retail and businesses as promised. And I remember plans for a capsule hotel in one of the buildings which I think were rejected.

    Are these units suitable for creative industries? If so, there should be plenty of demand around, especially with faircharm about to be redeveloped.

    I just don't understand why their still empty after three years. Do any residents have any info from your general meetings that you'd care to share?

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  9. I live next doorFriday, January 23, 2015

    As far as I'm aware, the deli had planning issues preventing it from opening. The playhouse had a planning application in with Greenwich Council a few months back (at subsidised rent) and the next action on them is to raise money, or failing that the unit will go onto the market a full rental price. The unit next to the gym has been taken and is being kitted out for http://www.minervia.com/ That pretty much fills deals with two of the blocks. The other block - the pod hotel, is I believed owned by Criterion Capital. They applied to turn the retail into residential units, but their plans were not great. Given the other units are shifting they don't seem to be doing much with theirs - I'm guessing they probably have their heart set on converting them and as such are not really actively marketing them (just a guess).

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  10. Oh, that's a real shame about the deli. Would love to know what prevented them opening...surely these units would be appropriate for food and drink?

    Minervia seen to be an IT company...strange place for the,to open in my opinion!

    I've just seen that there's a recent planning app in to do something to the units at Atrium heights although there is no detail except splitting the units into 6...maybe to make them more marketable?

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  11. I live next doorFriday, January 23, 2015

    It seems to have collapsed over the planning restrictions on pizza ovens!

    https://www.tumblr.com/search/greenwich%20creekside

    re IT firm - it's quite a funky minimal office space that has been created. Not to everyone's taste I'm sure, but it looks quite clean and sharp. The office seems to house other companies they operate: http://www.timeslice.co.uk/index.php


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  12. It would be VERY difficult for retail to make a go of it along there. Shops in Greenwich town centre find it difficult enough, and the footfall there is very high, but there's not many people wandering along the bleak, windy canyons looking to do a bit of retail therapy.

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