No trains from Deptford to London Bridge until January 2018

So much for our "great transport links"...

Just in case you didn't know, no trains from Deptford will stop at London Bridge from Friday 26th August till January 2018.

St Johns, New Cross, Westcombe Park, Maze Hill and Greenwich are also affected by improvements at London Bridge. All trains will go straight to Cannon Street for at least fifteen months, forcing many people into completely altering their journeys to and from work.

And over the August Bank Holiday and until the end of Thursday 1st September, no trains will call at Waterloo East, London Bridge, Charing Cross or Cannon Street.

The Deptford Dame posted about this in July 2013, but go to From The Murky Depths for the latest update on further cuts to the timetables...

Changes to Southeastern train services from Deptford

If you're a commuter you are probably now familiar with the planned changes to Southeastern train services into town. Occasional users may still be in the dark. Although local bloggers (Deptford Dame, 853, West Greenwich and others) have been talking about it for some time now, it can't do much harm to reiterate the changes here.

The first impact will be the loss of services to the centre of town (Charing Cross) in January 2015 – either directly or by changing at London Bridge (because Charing Cross trains will not stop at London Bridge). The second major change will be in August 2016 with the loss of any access to London Bridge (and thus to all other places, such as Gatwick) until 'early' 2018.
 
12 January 2015 onwards (forever)
•    Southeastern services from New Cross, St. Johns, Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill and Westcombe Park stations will no longer operate to and from Charing Cross or Waterloo East, and will instead operate to and from Cannon Street. These diverted services will still call at London Bridge

12 January 2015 to August 2016
•    Southeastern services to and from Charing Cross will not call at London Bridge
•    Southeastern services to and from Cannon Street will continue to call at London Bridge

August 2016 to early 2018 
•    Southeastern services to and from Charing Cross resume calling at London Bridge BUT
•    Southeastern services to and from Cannon Street will not call at London Bridge. Some diversions will take place between Charing Cross and Cannon Street

2018
•    Southeastern services to and from Cannon Street will resume calling at London Bridge

For a full list of services affected by Network Rail's rebuilding of London Bridge (as a result of the Thameslink programme) go to this Transport for London page.

Update 28 Oct:  

There is a campaign to reduce the disruption – see GLUG (Greenwich Line Users Group). Contact them via greenwichline@outlook.com.

Thanks to From the Murky Depths for further clarification on the decimation of our services:

A big issue is 4 trains cut in the evening peak (4-7pm) to Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill and Westcombe Park. Three are at the busiest time of 5:30 - 6:30pm. This is around 38 carriages in total, and 30 alone from 5:30-6:30pm.

They say they will extend other services to make it up but the numbers don't seem to add up to maintain capacity at the busiest times. Other trains are already around 8 carriages long, with some 10, and trains cannot be longer than 10 as Woolwich Dockyard along the line has short platforms, and no mitigating action has been taken about it.

No more trains to London Bridge...or Waterloo or Charing Cross...

It's pretty bad news for all local users of South Eastern Trains...

Deptford High Street blog published a piece last week by Mike Sparham from the Greenwich Line Users' Group, which we reproduce here...

In 2014 trains will have been running for 150 years between Charing Cross and Deptford. Unfortunately, it may also be the last year as, from January 2015, there are plans to stop all direct trains to Waterloo East and Charing Cross, with all services diverted into Cannon Street. Even worse, for three years until the beginning of 2018, it will not even be possible to change trains at London Bridge for a Southeastern service to these stations.

This is all a consequence of the Thameslink programme, a £6bn Government-funded scheme to improve capacity on the Thameslink route through the re-building of London Bridge. This programme means that from January 2015 until August 2016 no Charing Cross trains will call at London Bridge. From August 2016 to early 2018 no Cannon Street trains will call at London Bridge, meaning that when you get on a London-bound train at Deptford it will whisk (or trundle) you to Cannon Street but nowhere else. And it is no use walking to New Cross, as that station is also affected the same way.

Once the work is complete, it will once again be possible to change at London Bridge, but there will be no physical track connection that will enable trains to reach Charing Cross. So, after 150 years, the West End will no longer be reached by direct trains.

The Greenwich Line Users’ Group has been formed to represent the interests of all passengers who use the Greenwich Line. Whilst we recognise that the work at London Bridge will bring about many improvements for passengers generally, it will disadvantage users of the Greenwich Line. Our objective is to remove that disadvantage. Insufficient thought has been given by the Department for Transport to the impact on the Greenwich Line and the possible ways in which direct Charing Cross services could be maintained.

Cannon Street is a fine station for the City, but hopeless for getting to and from the West End. The Group will be lobbying the Department for Transport, Network Rail and Southeastern trains for a service that meets the needs of South East Londoners.

The Users’ Group can be contacted at greenwichline@outlook.com. We will be happy to receive your comments or questions.

Also see the Deptford Dame's post for comments...

Rail users' group for Greenwich line

Darryl at 853 Blog reports that there's a meeting tomorrow night (Tuesday 26th March) at 7pm at Davy's Wine Bar in Greenwich High Road about the possibility of setting up a rail users' group for people using the Greenwich line.

A rep from South Eastern Railway will be in attendance, along with someone from the Charlton Rail Users' Group. Although the main reason for the meeting will be to talk about the disruptions that will be caused by the rebuilding works at London Bridge station, as Darryl suggests, it may also be a useful forum for Deptford station users who are unhappy with the present cleaning regime there.

See Darryl's post here.

See also our previous post, and the Deptford Dame.

Deptford station

Remember the days before Deptford station was rebuilt? We do. This is what it looked like:

We posted more pictures showing what the station used to look like in April 2011, just as work commenced on building the new one. Unfortunately, since the new station opened in April 2012 (see the Deptford Dame post), a cleaning contract has not been in place, so that nearly a year later, the station is beginning to resemble the old one.

A group of locals who regularly use the station have been complaining for some time now. Their complaints fell on deaf ears for many months since it wasn't clear whose responsibility it was to maintain and clean the station (Network Rail or South Eastern Railway?), and they were given the usual run around by both companies.

Now they know that South Eastern Railway should be doing the job, and have been promised not only "an increase in staffing" (someone with a broom and mop at least twice a day), but a thorough three-day deep clean that is programmed to start on March 18th and take place on a regular basis thereafter.*

Since the so-called increase in staffing (a cleaner pops down from Greenwich station) the manager from South Eastern reports a "significant improvement", but those using the station contend that cleaning is still not being carried out to a satisfactory standard. The station's architects originally specified that the station should be cleaned for 30+ hours a week, but the new cleaning regime is only 3 hours a day, plus some time at the weekend. Cleaning doesn't appear to be taking place on Sunday, so Monday's commuters must start the week walking through Saturday night's detritus.

One of them commented, "The new station is an unusual building and one which requires a high level of maintenance to avoid it looking uncared for. Once a public building begins to look shabby, people begin to mistreat it...There are many surfaces and areas that are difficult to access without specialist platforms/scaffolding, and large expanses of glass which, unless cleaned regularly, really show the dirt, and stainless steel which needs cleaning to prevent rust..."

Cleaning is one thing – repairs and maintenance another. Lighting not working in the arch passageway has been reported, along with shattered glass, pigeon lofts, nowhere to put rubbish and fag butts, the lift not working, and other wear and tear...

In the meantime, if you want to help get the message across to South Eastern, you can upload your comments along with a photo of the filth and mess to South Eastern's comments page.

Update Thursday 21 March:
Surprise, surprise! No deep cleaning took place on Monday 18th March! An enquiry to South Eastern produced no reason, but a promise that it will take place on Monday and Tuesday 25th & 26th March. The South Eastern Railway rep blamed the behaviour of 'the public' for the neglect that has resulted in the current state of the station.

In February, the South London Press also carried the story (unfortunately not available online), which may have led to local's complaints being temporarily dealt with – but so far, the bad publicity has produced very little result.

Update Friday 22 March: We hear Dame Joan Ruddock is scheduled to open the station proper next week (according to some bloke working at the station) so South Eastern will really have to do a clean up after all. Also see what our other Dame has to say in her latest post.

Deptford High Street improvements

We've been meaning to write about this for ages, but never got round to it: how Lewisham Council intends to spend the £1.5m awarded by the Mayor of London's Outer London Fund to make improvements to the southern end of Deptford High Street.

Now there's a drop-in event at Deptford Lounge on Wednesday 17 October (4-7pm) for you to find out for yourselves.

You can read more on Lewisham's website. Also see Deptford Dame and Brockley Central. On the council website you can also fill in a survey that asks "What would encourage you to shop more often at Deptford High Street and Deptford Market?" and, having declared that the anchor is to be moved from its present position, ends with the question "Where do you think it should go?"

The Deptford Dame says there is a very obvious place to put the anchor – in the new skate park at Giffin Square (the kids can skate around it). She also points out that the plans show some nice new low-level seating, so the drinking community will still have a spot to perch.

Whilst new lighting, better electrical connections, more trees and new drainage are all improvements to be welcomed, other plans may be less so. New paving will obviously improve the look of the place, but how many times must we get new paving, for it only to look dirty and terrible within a few weeks? Just look at Douglas Way now, it's absolutely filthy. The new paving in Giffin Square is already stained and never cleaned. And within days of being laid, new paving by the main road was being dug up by utilities whose obligation to return it as found was not enforced by the council with any vigour. Not to mention the paving already in the high street which has been filled in for years with tarmac by Lewisham themselves (as is most of the paving elsewhere in the borough).

And what is the point of new paving when there is no proper cleaning up (ie jet washing) after the three-day-a-week market? What is the point of new lighting when the lighting is never properly maintained? What is the point of new trees when they are left to die? (see Frankham Street).

Ongoing maintenance of the high street is sadly lacking. Fancy new stall canopies and outdoor art exhibitions are not going to hide the fact.

Another fine example of how all this new stuff just goes to wrack and ruin within months is Deptford Station, which some have said is "approaching dereliction before it is even fully finished". The spanking new surfaces are showing the results of six months of neglect, with dirt, dust and pigeon droppings, staining from spillages on flooring and glass, leaks in the roof, dead pigeon feathers, a shattered glass panel (due to steel tension rather than vandalism), a smell of fish, and the lifts stinking of urine (no toilets, alas!).

The rapidly declining state of the new station is thanks to Network Rail or South Eastern's neglect, rather than Lewisham Council's, but goes to show that without cleaning and maintenance, there's not much chance of new public spaces looking – and feeling – good for long.

Update 17/10/12 (edited 18/10/12):

From the mini exhibition this evening we gather that the team working on the Deptford High Street Improvement Scheme have given a lot of consideration to the issues raised above and in our comments section.

Some points to note are:

• The anchor will be moved from the top of the high street, but Giffin and Douglas Squares are not considered appropriate new homes for it since both are used (or will be) for the market and as event spaces. Due to popular demand, however, the "cherished landmark" will not be returned to Chatham Dockyard (from whence it came 20 years ago), but kept in storage until it can be accommodated somewhere. We forgot to ask where the "storage" is – it could well be Chatham. Not a very satisfactory solution for those who have come to regard the anchor as the only visible sign of Deptford's maritime heritage.

• The low seating featured in the architectural drawings will not go ahead. There will be no fixed seating since this attracts street drinkers. Never mind that the late night betting community are not worried about sitting down. The team are considering the idea of having a kiosk (or sort of pop-up cafe) that might sell hot drinks etc and which will have non-fixed seating that will be put away at night. Quite why anyone would want to sit outside by the busy A2 for a coffee is beyond this author. And where are they going to store the furniture? The bloke who runs the Wimpy wasn't too happy about the idea either.

• Some shop keepers who were concerned about losing much of their shop frontage as the market space is widened will be variously appeased. Some of the more historic shopfronts have been identified to receive improvements, though we're not sure what this means.

• The council have entered into a joint PFI (Private Finance Initiative) with Croydon Council which will involve the renewal of all street lighting in the borough and the long term maintenance of its lighting stock for 25 years.

• In a time of cost cutting, the chances of ongoing maintenance of new paving etc is too much to hope for. Since there is no money to maintain what is already in place, it is felt that this opportunity to renew the dilapidated street is better than nothing.

Other issues dealt with include business waste, parking, traffic flow, the market's future storage needs, and ideas for pulling in shoppers. A forum will be set up consisting of various stakeholders and residents.

The team are also working with the police, local organisations and charities to address the issues of street drinking, antisocial behaviour, betting shops, drug dealing and the alarming increase in rough sleeping and homelessness.

 

Deptford Station

It appears work is finally starting on Deptford station...Pop over to the Deptford Dame for this enormously welcome bit of news.

STOP PRESS - See also the Dame's update ...

Here's some pictures taken in 2003 – yes, 2003, before digital cameras. Those who have continued to use the station on their daily commute may remember a bit of a clean up and paint job in between then and now (personally I've refused to commute since well before that date). But only last week I could observe no change in the awful conditions Deptford commuters have had to tolerate for so long now...

 The ticket machine in 2003 often didn't work...

Praise the Lord! Rejoice! Hallelujah! (sound of trumpets and generally loud symphonic celebratory noise)...

Postscript: Volker Fitzpatrick told us at their (underpublicised) Open Day that SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAYS are responsible for the maintenance of the station. Since commuters will have to use the same entrance until November, perhaps someone could start a campaign to get them to CLEAN IT UP!